Irregular Warfare Podcast

The Inheritance: America's Military After Two Decades of War

Episode 127 of the Irregular Warfare Podcast explores the lasting impact of the Global War on Terrorism and what the United States has inherited—militarily, politically, and socially—after twenty years of conflict in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Our guests begin by examining how the U.S. military has historically navigated post-war transitions, particularly following protracted irregular conflicts. They then evaluate the consequences of the post-9/11 wars on the military institution, the broader national security establishment, and American society at large. The episode concludes with a forward-looking discussion about the strategic lessons learned and what they might mean for future great power competition and conflict.
The Honorable Mara Karlin is a Professor of Practice at the Johns Hopkins School of Advanced International Studies. She has held senior national security roles for six U.S. Secretaries of Defense and most recently served as Assistant Secretary of Defense for Strategy, Plans, and Capabilities. Her newly published book, The Inheritance: America’s Military After Two Decades of War, anchors today’s discussion.
Major General (retired) John Ferrari is a nonresident fellow at the American Enterprise Institute. He focuses on the defense budget, reform, and acquisition, and previously served as director of program analysis and evaluation in the Army. Over his 32-year military career, he also served as a strategic planner for Operation Iraqi Freedom and as a deputy commander at the NATO Training Mission in Afghanistan.
Ben Jebb and Alisa Laufer are the hosts for this episode. Please reach out to Ben and Alisa with any questions about this episode or the Irregular Warfare Podcast.

Plausible Deniability: Proxy Actors and the Hybrid Threat Ecosystem

Episode 126 examines the evolution of proxy warfare and hybrid threats in the current security environment. Our guests explore how states increasingly delegate conflict to non-state actors and leverage hybrid approaches to achieve strategic objectives below the threshold of conventional war.
Our guests begin by exploring the conceptual foundations of proxy warfare and how it has evolved from historical conflicts to modern battlefields in Ukraine, Syria, and beyond. They then discuss the integration of hybrid threat tactics—spanning military, political, economic, and information domains—within proxy relationships. Finally, our guests analyze the implications for defense policy, offering insights into how both NATO and EU countries are adapting to counter these complex security challenges.
Dr. Vladimir Rauta is an Associate Professor of International Security with the School of Philosophy, Politics and Economics at the University of Reading. He was a 2023 Non-Resident Fellow with the Irregular Warfare Initiative. Vladimir's research examines the delegation of war from states to armed non-state actors in the contemporary security environment. He has published extensively in journals such as International Security and is one of the editors of the recently published Routledge Handbook of Proxy Wars.
Dr. Teija Tiilikainen is the Director of the European Centre of Excellence for Countering Hybrid Threats. Previously, she was the Director of the Finnish Institute of International Affairs and has served as Secretary of State at the Ministry for Foreign Affairs of Finland. Her extensive policy experience and research on European integration and security policy provide valuable insights into countering hybrid threats in the modern security landscape.

Ukraine's Hidden Front: The Strategic Impact of Resistance Operations

Episode 125 examines the impact of Ukraine's irregular warfare and resistance operations on its broader strategic objectives. Our guests discuss how Ukrainian resistance activities have evolved throughout the conflict and evaluate their strategic importance in the war against Russia.
Our guests begin by describing how Ukrainian resistance and irregular warfare activities developed through different phases of the war, from initial guerrilla tactics during the invasion to the sophisticated long-range attacks within Russian territory. They then assess whether these operations accomplish battlefield effects, their influence on escalation dynamics, and how they shape both Ukrainian and Russian populations' perceptions of the war. Finally, our guests provide insights on the synergy between conventional and special operations forces, the role of technology in resistance, and lessons that can be applied to future conflicts.
Lieutenant General (Ret.) Mark Hertling served for 38 years in the US Army as a tanker and cavalryman, serving at every level from tank platoon leader to Commander of the 7th Army. He retired in December 2012 after serving as the Commanding General of US Army Europe, where he led over 60,000 soldiers and partnered with the armies of 51 nations. LTG Hertling worked with Ukrainian forces as early as 2004 and has extensive experience in military transformation and coalition operations.
Dr. Alexandra Chinchilla is an Assistant Professor of International Affairs at Texas A&M's Bush School of Government and Public Service. Her research examines how powerful states use security cooperation tools to increase their influence over allies, partners, and proxies, with extensive research on the war in Ukraine. She has conducted fieldwork in Ukraine since the full-scale invasion and serves as an advisor to the IWI Special Project on Proxies and Partners.

The Fourth Age: The SOCOM Commander's Vision for the Future

Episode 124 explores the evolution and future of Special Operations Forces (SOF) through the lens of "The Fourth Age," a work of fictional intelligence examining future SOF capabilities and missions. Our guests discuss how SOF has evolved through distinct eras since World War II and examine how emerging technologies and domains will shape special operations in the 2030s and beyond.
Our guests begin by exploring the utility of storytelling and "useful fiction" in military education and planning. They then examine the historical development of SOF through three distinct ages, from its OSS origins through the Cold War and Global War on Terror. Finally, they discuss how SOF is evolving to meet future challenges through the integration of space, cyber, and emerging technologies while maintaining its core human element.
General Bryan P. Fenton is the Commander of U.S. Special Operations Command. He has previously commanded at every level from Detachment Command in 7th Special Forces Group through commanding Joint Special Operations Command. He is a graduate of the University of Notre Dame and has served on active duty for over 37 years.
Command Sergeant Major Shane Shorter is the Command Senior Enlisted Leader for U.S. Special Operations Command. He enlisted in the Army as an Infantryman in 1988 and joined special forces in 1992. He spent much of his career in 1st Special Forces Group and recently served as senior enlisted leader for Special Operations Command Pacific, U.S. Indo-Pacific Command, and the Joint Special Operations University.
August Cole is an author exploring the future of conflict through fiction and fictional intelligence storytelling. With P.W. Singer, he is the co-author of the bestseller "Ghost Fleet: A Novel of the Next World War" and "Burn In: A Novel of the Real Robotic Revolution." He is a co-founder and managing partner at Useful Fiction, focusing on defense and security.

Training for Victory: Lessons for Security Force Assistance

Episode 123 explores the critical role of security force assistance (SFA) and identifies the key factors that influence the effectiveness of building foreign armies. 
Our guests start by situating SFA within the broader context of Washington’s national security strategy. They then analyze the variables that impact the success of security assistance, including the importance of language proficiency, advisor-to-force ratios, and the role of combat advising in shaping outcomes. Finally, they offer actionable recommendations for practitioners and policymakers to enhance the effectiveness of security force assistance in the future.
Dr. Frank Sobchak is a retired Special Forces colonel who served in various assignments in war and peace during his 26-year military career. He is Chair of Irregular Warfare Studies at the Modern War Institute and serves as a Senior Fellow at the Global and National Security Institute. Dr. Sobchak’s newly published book, “Training for Victory,” examines security force assistance and serves as the anchor for today’s conversation.
JoAnn Naumann currently serves as the USASOC Command Sergeant Major. Over the course of her 28-year career, she has completed over fourteen deployments throughout the Middle East and Africa, and has served as the senior enlisted advisor for multiple organizations within the Special Operations community. CSM Naumann holds a bachelor’s degree from the College of William & Mary. 

Theory vs. Practice: What is Irregular War?

Episode 122 examines a unique theory on Irregular War that challenges both historical and contemporary frameworks on the topic. The guests conduct an in-depth discussion and debate over the complexities of Irregular War and its implications for the U.S. in future conflicts throughout the globe. 
Our guests define and discuss the various terminology commonly used amongst the irregular warfare community as the foundation for introducing the concept of the “dysfunctional sovereign.” They then debate the strengths and weaknesses of this theory of irregular war and its utility within the context of the current global threat environment. Our guests then provide insight into understanding the importance of both allied and adversarial perspectives on the subject, the shortcomings of current U.S. military doctrine related to irregular war, and how the U.S. should adapt its approach in the future. Lastly, they provide recommendations for how policymakers and practitioners can better approach irregular warfare in the future. 
Jonathan Hackett is a U.S. Marine with two decades of experience running complex intelligence operations and special activities in dozens of countries across four continents. He finished his military career leading the only formal school in the Marine Corps making military advisors for our allies and partners. During his time in the Marine Corps, he held positions at the Defense Intelligence Agency, National Security Agency, and Special Operations Command prior to teaching in Dam Neck, Virginia. In addition to his book Theory of Irregular War, Jonathan writes extensively on security cooperation, irregular conflicts, and clandestine intelligence activities.
Dr. Sandor Fabian is a defense Contractor at Morgan6 LLC. supporting the Irregular Warfare Center as deputy regional advisor for Europe and Africa. Dr. Fabian is a former Hungarian Special Forces officer with 20+ years of military experience and has served in multiple national and international assignments including the Assessment and Evaluation Branch head at the NATO Special Operations Headquarters. Dr. Fabian has published numerous journal articles and op-eds on resistance, special operations, small countries’ defense frameworks, U.S. security assistance programs, and is the author of the book titled, Irregular Warfare: The future Military Strategy for Small States.

Below the Threshold: China's Strategy of Armed Coercion

Episode 121 explores China's use of armed coercion and its implications for irregular warfare with James Siebens and Jimmy Wang.
Our guests begin by examining how China employs both military and paramilitary forces to advance its territorial claims in disputed areas. They then discuss how psychological warfare, lawfare, and maritime operations intersect in the Indo-Pacific region, highlighting China's sophisticated approach to coercion below the threshold of armed conflict. Finally, our guests offer insights into effective deterrence strategies and policy recommendations for addressing China's coercive activities in the region.
James Siebens is a Fellow at the Stimson Center and author of "China's Use of Armed Coercion." His research focuses on international security, with particular emphasis on analyzing gray zone conflicts and military coercion. Through his work, he examines how nations employ armed forces to advance political objectives without engaging in sustained conflict, providing valuable insights into modern strategic competition.
Jimmy Wang is a Non-Resident Fellow at the Stimson Center and former Navy Foreign Area Officer. During his distinguished military career, he served as Northeast Asia Desk Officer for the Chief of Naval Operations and advised U.S. Pacific Fleet on Chinese naval affairs. His firsthand experience in planning and executing Military Maritime Consultative Agreement talks with China provides unique perspectives on maritime security dynamics in the Indo-Pacific region.

Culture, Access, Influence: The FAO Advantage in Irregular Warfare

Episode 120 explores the critical role of Foreign Area Officers (FAOs) in irregular warfare and strategic competition with Mike Burgoyne and Jim Marckwardt.
Our guests examine the foundational aspects of the FAO program and its evolution, highlighting how FAOs serve as "Pentagon diplomats" maintaining critical defense relationships worldwide. They then discuss how FAOs excel in the gray zone between peace and war, exploring case studies from Plan Colombia to Afghanistan. Finally, our guests offer insights into how senior leaders can better utilize FAO expertise in developing and implementing irregular warfare strategies.
Michael Burgoyne is a retired U.S. Army Colonel, Assistant Professor of Practice at the University of Arizona, and a PhD candidate at King's College London. His extensive experience includes serving as Senior Defense Official in Guatemala, Defense Attaché in Afghanistan, and Army Attaché in Mexico. As a Foreign Area Officer, he developed advanced language capabilities and regional expertise across Latin America. He holds master's degrees in Security Studies from Georgetown University and Strategic Studies from the U.S. Army War College, and is the coauthor of "The Defense of Jisr al-Doreaa," a tactical primer on modern counterinsurgency.
Albert "Jim" Marckwardt is a retired U.S. Army Lieutenant Colonel, Administrator and Adjunct Associate Professor at Johns Hopkins School of Advanced International Studies (SAIS), and Associate Professor & Faculty Lead at Defense Security Cooperation University. His extensive experience includes serving as Country Director at the Office of the Secretary of Defense for Policy, where he formulated defense policy for Colombia and Venezuela, and as Political Military Advisor at Joint Task Force Bravo in Honduras. He holds a Doctor of International Affairs from Johns Hopkins SAIS and brings over 30 years of leadership experience spanning combat operations, security cooperation, international diplomacy, and policy development.

Sneaky Wars in the Indo-Pacific

Episode 119 discusses irregular warfare in the Indo-Pacific with Dr. Sean McFate, and COL Ed Croot. 
 
Our guests discuss the evolving landscape of irregular warfare. They critique the conventional vs. irregular warfare paradigm, introduce the concept of 'sneaky war,' and explore the importance of unconventional strategies in countering global adversaries like China. Finally the conversation delves into the interplay between conventional and irregular tactics, the rise of mercenaries like the Wagner Group, and strategies to counter disinformation.
 
Dr. Sean McFate is an author, novelist, and national security expert. He holds three professorships: Georgetown University, National Defense University, and Syracuse University. His diverse career includes roles as a U.S. Army paratrooper, private military contractor, and international business executive, with extensive experience in conflict zones and political risk consulting. McFate has written critically acclaimed non-fiction, including The New Rules of War.
 
COL Ed Croot is an active-duty army officer currently serving in Ft Liberty. Ed has years of experience serving the special operations and intelligence communities across the Middle East and Indo-Pacific. Ed has served from the tactical to the strategic levels of command and most recently as the Operations Director for the Special Operations Command - Pacific. 

SOF’s Role in Conflict

Episode 118 focuses on SOF in Conflict. The podcast falls within the SOF Special Project. Contact Director SOF Adam Darnley-Stuart to join the team.
Episode 118 of the Irregular Warfare podcast explores the definitions of conflict and SOFs value proposition to the joint force. Our guests discuss the unique capabilities and humans required to build a capable and credible Special Operations Force to prepare the theater and set the conditions if conflict arises. Finally, our guests offer insights into the need to focus on permissions, mandates and authorities to enable full employment of the Special Operations Force. 
The Honorable Chris Maier is the Assistant Secretary of Defense for SpecialOperations and Low-Intensity Conflict. Chris oversees and advocates for Special Operations and Irregular Warfare throughout the Department of Defense to ensure these capabilities are resourced, ready, and properly employed in accordance with the National Defense Strategy. 
Colonel Patrick Nelson is the Commander of the 7th Special Forces Group. His command assignments include: 24 months as Commander, Special Forces Operational Detachment- Alpha 726, deploying to Ecuador, Paraguay, and Afghanistan. He also spent 12 months in support of Operation Enduring Freedom/Afghanistan; 24 months as commander, 2nd Battalion where he deployed twice to Afghanistan in support of Operation Freedom Sentinel.