Irregular Warfare Podcast

Preserving the American Edge: Revitalizing the Defense Industrial Base

Episode 147 of the Irregular Warfare Podcast examines the past, present, and future of America’s defense industrial base—and why its strength may determine the outcome of the next era of great power competition. Drawing on historical experience and contemporary reforms, the episode argues that American military advantage has long depended on close collaboration between government and industry. From Roosevelt’s wartime mobilization to Cold War breakthroughs in stealth and reconnaissance, U.S. success has repeatedly flowed from its ability to harness commercial innovation and industrial scale. Today, however, that ecosystem faces mounting strain as China expands its manufacturing capacity and defense production at unprecedented speed.
The conversation highlights a central tension: while the United States retains unmatched technological depth—especially in commercial sectors such as artificial intelligence and advanced computing—much of that innovation remains only partially integrated into defense. Regulatory barriers, acquisition culture, and post–Cold War consolidation have narrowed the defense industrial base, limiting the military’s ability to tap the full breadth of American industry. In response, the U.S. Army is experimenting with faster acquisition cycles, commercial partnerships, and modular, software-driven designs that shorten timelines from concept to fielding while preserving the ability to scale production in a crisis.
Finally, the discussion addresses the policy implications of rebuilding industrial strength. Sustained investment, clearer demand signals to industry, and greater flexibility in budgeting and contracting are essential to restoring surge capacity and critical stockpiles. The guests emphasize that the costs of preparation are far lower than the costs of deterrence failure. For practitioners and policymakers alike, the episode highlights a simple but urgent message: preserving America’s military edge requires aligning industrial policy, acquisition reform, and technological innovation with the realities of renewed great power competition.
Dr. Alexander Miller is the Senior Advisor for Science and Technology and Chief Technology Officer to the Chief of Staff of the U.S. Army. He holds a Master’s degree in Systems Engineering from Johns Hopkins University and a Doctorate of Technology from Purdue University’s Polytechnic Institute.
Dr. Seth G. Jones is president of the Defense and Security Department and Harold Brown Chair at the Center for Strategic and International Studies (CSIS). His work focuses on defense strategy, the defense industrial base, and irregular warfare. His book The American Edge: The Military Tech Nexus and the Sources of Great Power Dominance anchors this episode’s discussion.
Ben Jebb and Kyle Atwell host this episode. Please reach out to the Irregular Warfare Podcast team with any questions about the episode or the broader mission of the show.
The Irregular Warfare Podcast is a production of the Irregular Warfare Initiative (IWI). We are a team of volunteers dedicated to bridging the gap between scholars and practitioners in the field of irregular warfare. IWI generates written and audio content, coordinates events for the IW community, and hosts critical thinkers in the field of irregular warfare as IWI fellows. You can follow and engage with us on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, YouTube, or LinkedIn.
Subscribe to our monthly newsletter for access to our written content, upcoming community events, and other resources.
 

Competitive Intervention, Proxy War, and Military Assistance: Anderson, Eyre, and Kuhlman

Description:
Episode 146 examines the impact of external military assistance on civil wars. 
Summary
This conversation delves into the complexities of competitive intervention in civil wars, exploring the types of military aid provided, how external support influences conflict dynamics, and implications for practitioners and policymakers. The discussion highlights the prevalence of external interventions, the escalation dynamics involved, and the moral dilemmas faced by intervening states. Our guests emphasize the need for a nuanced understanding of these interventions, particularly in the context of an increasingly multipolar world where we anticipate competitive intervention and proxy wars will increase.
Takeaways
Competitive intervention is characterized by opposing military assistance from different states.
75% of civil wars since WWII have experienced external military assistance. This is very common.
Weapons transfers are the most common form of external support in conflicts.
External aid significantly impacts the duration and dynamics of civil wars.
Competitive interventions are associated with a 50% decline in the likelihood of conflict termination.
Ethnic dynamics can complicate civil war outcomes but do not universally determine conflict duration.
Non-state actors are increasingly involved in providing support in civil conflicts.
The rise of multipolarity may lead to increased competitive interventions.
Escalation dynamics complicate the nature of military support in conflicts. Specifically escalation concerns will lead donors to give enough support to keep the conflict going, but not enough to enable a decisive victory. 
Policymakers should consider the moral implications of prolonging conflicts through intervention.
Future conflicts will require a diverse range of military capabilities and strategies. 
General (retired) Wayne Eyre served as Chief of the Defence Staff in the Canadian Armed Forces from 2021 to 2024, Canada’s highest-ranking military officer. With more than 40 years of service, he commanded at multiple levels, including operational deployments in Afghanistan and Bosnia. He is currently a Senior Fellow and Visiting Professor at the University of Ottawa. 
Dr. Noel Anderson is an Associate Professor in the Department of Political Science at the University of Toronto and author of Wars Without End: Competitive Intervention, Escalation Control, and Protracted Conflict. The book examines why contemporary wars so often resist clear endings. He holds a Ph.D. in Political Science from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology. 
Lieutenant Colonel (Dr.) Matthew Kuhlman is a U.S. Army officer, military scholar, and the current Managing Editor at the Irregular Warfare Initiative – where he helps curate written practitioner and scholar insights for the irregular warfare community.  
Kyle Atwell is the host for episode 146. Please reach out to him with any questions about the episode or IWI. 
The Irregular Warfare Podcast is a production of the Irregular Warfare Initiative (IWI). We are a team of volunteers dedicated to bridging the gap between scholars and practitioners to support the community of irregular warfare professionals. IWI generates written and audio content, coordinates events for the IW community, and hosts critical thinkers in the field of irregular warfare as IWI fellows. You can follow and engage with us on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, YouTube, or LinkedIn.
Subscribe to our monthly newsletter for (always free!) access to our written content, upcoming community events, and other resources.
All views expressed in this episode are the personal views of the participants and do not represent those of any government agency or of the Empirical Studies of Conflict Project. 
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Foreign Fighters in War

Episode 145 examines the role of foreign fighters in war. 
Our guests begin by highlighting the long history of foreign fighters in conflict, from the early United States and the Spanish Civil War of the 1930s to contemporary cases such as the International Legion in Ukraine and the role of foreign fighters in ISIS. The conversation then turns to why individuals risk their lives for others in far away lands, with motivations ranging from financial incentives and ideological commitments to deeply personal reasons. Finally, the discussion concludes by examining the impact foreign fighters have on the battlefield – with the results often being mixed. 
Dr. David Malet is an Associate Professor at American University whose research focuses on foreign fighter recruitment, insurgency, and transnational conflict dynamics. He is the author of the book Foreign Fighters: Transnational Identity in Civil Conflicts, a comprehensive study of why and how individuals join wars far from home. 
Colin Freeman is a British journalist and former chief foreign correspondent for The Sunday Telegraph. He has reported extensively from conflict zones around the world, including recently in Ukraine. His book The Mad and the Brave: The Untold Story of Ukraine’s Foreign Legion tells the stories of foreign volunteers who joined Ukraine’s defense during the Russo-Ukrainian War. 
Kyle Atwell is the host for episode 145. Please reach out to him with any questions about the episode or IWI. 
The Irregular Warfare Podcast is a production of the Irregular Warfare Initiative (IWI). We are a team of volunteers dedicated to bridging the gap between scholars and practitioners to support the community of irregular warfare professionals. IWI generates written and audio content, coordinates events for the IW community, and hosts critical thinkers in the field of irregular warfare as IWI fellows. You can follow and engage with us on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, YouTube, or LinkedIn.
Subscribe to our monthly newsletter for (always free!) access to our written content, upcoming community events, and other resources.
All views expressed in this episode are the personal views of the participants and do not represent those of any government agency or of the Empirical Studies of Conflict Project. 
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Illustrative image generated by AI. It does not depict a real individual.

The Future of War Part III: Strategic Sabotage in an Era of Great-Power

Episode 144 of the Irregular Warfare Podcast continues the Future of War series with a sharp focus on strategic sabotage, indirect action, and deterrence below the threshold of armed conflict. The episode centers on “Special Delivery,” a near-future short story by August Cole set in 2037 amid intensifying U.S.–China competition. The story follows a small U.S. Special Operations team operating near Peru’s Port of Chancay, tasked with sabotaging Chinese-owned critical infrastructure as part of a broader effort to deter a potential blockade of Taiwan. Cole joins Rear Admiral Mark Schafer, Commander of SOCSOUTH, to explore how fiction can illuminate real strategic dilemmas and expose vulnerabilities embedded in global logistics, infrastructure, and access.
The conversation examines how modern sabotage has evolved away from overt kinetic strikes toward a blend of cyber access, physical infiltration, logistics disruption, and information effects—designed less to destroy than to shape adversary decision-making. While emerging technologies like autonomous systems and AI-enabled tools play an important role, both guests emphasize that human skills—adaptability, cultural fluency, and teamwork—remain decisive. The episode closes by grappling with escalation risk, underscoring that strategic sabotage can provide policymakers with powerful options short of war, but only if applied with a deep understanding of adversary perceptions and regional dynamics.

Ukraine's Hidden Front: The Strategic Impact of Resistance Operations

 As we close out the year, we're re-releasing our most popular episode of 2025: Ukraine's Hidden Front--The Strategic Impact of Resistance Operations. In this episode, we explore the cost and benefits of Ukrainian partisan activity and what resistance operations mean for Ukraine's broader war aims. As always, thanks for listening, and keep warfare irregular. 
 

What Determines Success in Guerrilla Warfare?

Episode 143 examines what enables certain guerrilla and insurgent forces to develop genuine military effectiveness on the battlefield.
Our guests discuss why ideological cohesion, social ties, and material resources alone are insufficient for insurgents to successfully implement guerrilla strategies. Drawing on historical examples and a detailed analysis of the Taliban’s evolution in Afghanistan, they argue that success depends on the professionalization of the force—particularly the recruitment, training, and empowerment of skilled small-unit combat leaders who enable effective planning, realistic training, adaptation, and task-oriented cohesion. The conversation explores broader implications for understanding insurgencies, counterinsurgency challenges, and security force assistance programs.
General (Ret.) Stan McChrystal is a retired U.S. Army four-star general, former commander of Joint Special Operations Command and International Security Assistance Force in Afghanistan, founder of the McChrystal Group, and author of multiple books on leadership and irregular warfare.
Dr. Alec Worsnop is an Assistant Professor at the University of Maryland’s School of Public Policy and a Non-Resident Fellow at the Modern War Institute. His research focuses on insurgent military effectiveness, and this episode is based on his recent book titled Rebels in the Field: Cadres and the Development of Insurgent Military Power published by Oxford University Press.
Kyle Atwell and Alisa Laufer are the hosts for episode 143. Please reach out to them with any questions about the episode or IWI.
The Irregular Warfare Podcast is a production of the Irregular Warfare Initiative (IWI). We are a team of volunteers dedicated to bridging the gap between scholars and practitioners in the field of irregular warfare. IWI generates written and audio content, coordinates events for the IW community, and hosts critical thinkers in the field of irregular warfare as IWI fellows. You can follow and engage with us on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, YouTube, or LinkedIn.
Subscribe to our monthly newsletter for access to our written content, upcoming community events, and other resources.
All views expressed in this episode are the personal views of the participants and do not represent those of any government agency or of the Empirical Studies of Conflict Project.
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Codifying Irregular Warfare—Inside the Pentagon’s new DoD Instruction 3000.07

Episode 142 of the Irregular Warfare Podcast features Dr. Jonathan Schroden, Mick Crnkovich, and Dave Maxwell for a deep dive into the Pentagon’s new irregular warfare policy instruction—DoD Instruction 3000.07—and what it signals about how the U.S. military understands, organizes for, and competes in irregular conflict.
The discussion opens with why the Department of Defense updated its irregular warfare guidance after two decades of counterterrorism operations and amid renewed strategic competition with state adversaries. The guests explain how the new instruction reflects a shift away from a terrorism-centric framework toward recognizing irregular warfare as a persistent and central feature of great power competition.
The panel then turns to the most contested element of the policy: the definition of irregular warfare itself. Jon, Mick, and Dave debate whether IW should be understood as a method of warfare, a theory of victory, or a distinct form of competition—arguing that while the definition matters, the real test will be whether the joint force changes how it plans, trains, and operates.
The episode closes with a hard look at whether DoDI 3000.07 will translate into meaningful institutional change. The guests assess persistent obstacles to operationalizing IW—including force design, resourcing, and planning culture—and emphasize that success will depend on leadership more than policy language. Influence, not firepower, they argue, will be the most decisive component of competition in today’s security environment.

Is Resistance Working in Ukraine?

Episode 141 examines what the role of resistance operations are in the context of the broader war in Ukraine. Our guests begin by discussing whether resistance in occupied Ukraine has been effective. They argue that “Random Acts of Resistance” are not effective. Instead, resistance activities are most impactful when well synchronized with conventional military operations. The effective use of resistance activities faces multiple challenges though, the largest being the need to synchronize not only SOF and conventional forces on the battlefield, but also to control resistance entities that are often built from the grassroots civilian population. Our guests conclude that resistance operations are important, but they play a supporting role in a broader war. 
LTG Andy Rohling has held multiple senior military roles in Europe, to include during the current war in Ukraine. Most relevantly he served as the Deputy Chair of the NATO Military Committee and Deputy Commanding General of United States Army Europe.
Jon Armstrong is a British Army Officer and author of the article “Violent Resistance in Occupied Ukraine: An Assessment of Network Capabilities, Access, and Utility“ which this conversation is based on. He has multiple operational deployments and is a 2025 Non-Resident Fellow at the Irregular Warfare Initiative.
Kyle Atwell and Dr. Olga Chiriac are the hosts for episode 141. Please reach out to them with any questions about the episode, the Irregular Warfare Podcast, or the IWI in Europe Program which Olga leads.
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South America in Competition Conference: Bonus Episode 2

Episode 140 is a bonus episode built out of conversations held with panelists from the 2025 Irregular Warfare Initiative and Special Operations Association of America South America in Competition Conference. 
The South America in Competition Conference brought together over 250 researchers, practitioners, and members of industry for two days at the Carahsoft Headquarters in the DC area. The first day included panel discussions on irregular warfare challenges in the South America region. The second day included a detailed wargame with participation from a range of stakeholders, planned by the IWI Wargaming Division. 
For this bonus episode, IWI Podcast Host Jackie Giunta recorded three short conversations with conference participants following their panel presentations.
First, IWI podcast host Jackie Giunta is joined by Dr. John Stockton, co-founder of Quantifind, Dave Cook from the Special Operations Association of America, and Dr. Ryan Berg from the Americas Program at the Center for Strategic and International Studies to discuss using open source intelligence to track illicit financial networks. Next, Catherine Woods from the Institute for Financial Integrity discusses illicit financial flows and tools of economic statecraft to counter them. Last, Phil Fuster, a Vice President at SpyCloud, further discusses the importance of OSINT and the need to refocus on relationships in South America.
Introducing and closing the episode are Doug Livermore, the IWI Director of Engagements, and Umar Ahmed Badami, Director of the IWI Wargaming Division. They also both planned this major event. Kyle Atwell provided editorial support for this episode. 
If you have an idea for a future event or war-game IWI should run, want to get involved in events, or want to provide material support so IWI can continue these important conversations - reach out to Doug or Umar directly. 
All views expressed in this episode are the personal views of the participants and do not represent those of any government agency or of the Empirical Studies of Conflict Project. 
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Unrestricted Innovation: The Supply Chain Battlefield

Episode 139 examines how supply chains have become instruments of strategic competition and the implications for U.S. defense capabilities. Our guests discuss how China gained control over critical drone components originally invented in the United States and what this means for economic security and irregular warfare.
Our guests begin by analyzing the "anatomy of a drone" to reveal how China leveraged consumer electronics manufacturing to dominate military supply chains. They then examine the "missing middle" in capital formation between venture funding and manufacturing scale, and how this gap undermines America's ability to compete in protracted economic campaigns. Finally, our guests discuss DIU's initiatives like Blue Manufacturing and Forge to rebuild domestic production capacity, the challenge of creating trusted supplier networks with allies, and how economic infrastructure has become both an offensive and defensive tool in modern warfare.
Dr. Fiona Murray is the William Porter Professor of Entrepreneurship and Associate Dean of Innovation at MIT Sloan School of Management. She chairs the NATO Innovation Fund, a €1 billion venture capital fund investing across 24 NATO allies. Her recent research examines drone supply chain vulnerabilities and the geography of innovation. She previously served on the UK Prime Minister's Council of Science and Technology and holds a PhD from Harvard.
Dr. John Griffin leads the Autonomy Portfolio and Boston office at the Defense Innovation Unit (DIU). A retired Marine Corps Lieutenant Colonel with 28 years of service. He previously taught at the U.S. Naval War College and led regional engagement for the National Security Innovation Network. He holds a doctorate from Northeastern University and a master's from Harvard.
All views expressed in this episode are the personal views of the participants and do not represent those of any government agency or of the Empirical Studies of Conflict Project. 
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Outro music: “Launch” by Ketsa