Irregular Warfare Podcast

Gray Zone: China’s Political Warfare

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What are the fundamental tenets of China's political warfare? What does it look like when Beijing employs political warfare in the real world? And how is it different, in both theory and practice, from traditional Western conceptualizations of warfare and its political component? This episode explores those questions and more. It features a conversation with two guests whose deep expertise gives them important perspectives on the subject. Dr. Ross Babbage is a nonresident senior fellow at the Center for Strategic and Budgetary Assessments, served as the head of strategic analysis in Australia’s Office of National Assessments, and is the author of the book The Next Major War: Can the US and its Allies Win against China? David Stilwell is the assistant secretary of state for the Bureau of East Asian and Pacific Affairs, a retired US Air Force officer, and former director of the China Strategic Focus Group at US Indo-Pacific Command. Together, they examine China’s practice of political warfare and how other states can counter it.
Intro music: "Unsilenced" by Ketsa
Outro music: "Launch" by Ketsa
CC BY-NC-ND 4.0

Inside the US-China Tech War

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Relations between the United States and China are characterized by growing competition and tension. This is true in a wide range of arenas, but particularly so when it comes to technology. US policy in recent years—from the move to keep companies such as Huawei out of US infrastructure to the CHIPS and Science Act enacted in 2022—is aimed at both preventing Chinese spying and containing China’s very ability to access high-end computing power. But where is US-China tech competition headed? In this episode—part of an episode swap with FP Live, produced by Foreign Policy—you’ll hear from Dan Wang, who explores that question along with Ravi Agrawal, Foreign Policy editor in chief. A visiting scholar at Yale Law School’s Paul Tsai China Center, Wang explains whether US regulatory measures are effective in actually curbing China’s ability to produce high-end semiconductor chips and proliferate its technology around the world. He also describes his pessimism about China’s long-term economic rise and his belief that the continued rapid pace of China’s technological development is not inevitable.
Intro music: "Unsilenced" by Ketsa
Outro music: "Launch" by Ketsa
CC BY-NC-ND 4.0

Who’s Watching the Watchmen? Congressional Oversight of Irregular Warfare

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Irregular warfare, by its nature, includes activities that distinguish it from those traditionally conducted by conventional forces. But if congressional oversight is designed with the latter in mind, does this create gaps in oversight of irregular warfare? If so, what can Congress do to address the problem? Our guests on this episode are Dr. Oona Hathaway, director of the Yale Law School Center for Global Legal Challenges, and Dr. Thomas Campbell, professor at Chapman University’s Dale E. Fowler School of Law and a former member of Congress. They discuss the complexities of the congressional Authorization for the Use of Military Force, the unique considerations surrounding Title 10 and Title 50 activities, and the responsibilities of various committees in overseeing these actions. They conclude by sharing their insights on what this means for both practitioners and policymakers.
Intro music: "Unsilenced" by Ketsa
Outro music: "Launch" by Ketsa
CC BY-NC-ND 4.0

Hindsight and Foresight: A Twenty-Year Retrospective on Irregular Warfare and Counterinsurgency

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In what ways do irregular warfare and counterinsurgency overlap? Is China engaged in irregular warfare against its adversaries? What are some of the failures of the wars and conflicts of the last twenty years and why did they occur? What do IW practitioners need to do to avoid the mistakes and to ensure they learn the hard-won lessons of the last twenty years in IW and COIN? This episode explores these deeply important questions and features a conversation with two of the leading experts on the subject: David Kilcullen and John Nagl.
Intro music: "Unsilenced" by Ketsa
Outro music: "Launch" by Ketsa
CC BY-NC-ND 4.0

The Rise of Digital Repression: How Technology is Reshaping Power, Politics, and Resistance

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What happens when authoritarianism expands into online environments? A form of digital repression takes shape. But what does that actually look like? What are the specific ways that authoritarian regimes use new technologies to control their populations? And how are resistance groups adapting to overcome digital repression? This episode addresses those questions as hosts Matt Moellering and Adam Darnley-Stuart are joined by Steven Feldstein, author of the book The Rise of Digital Repression: How Technology is Reshaping Power, Politics, and Resistance, and John Tullius, who retired from the CIA in 2019 and now teaches classes on intelligence at the Naval Postgraduate School.
Intro music: "Unsilenced" by Ketsa
Outro music: "Launch" by Ketsa
CC BY-NC-ND 4.0

Treating or Feeding the Disease? Elite Capture of the Security Sector

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What does it mean when a state’s security sector undergoes what scholars call “elite capture”—a form of corruption in which military and defense resources are leveraged to benefit a small, powerful segment of society? What problems contribute to elite capture and is it possible to disentangle them? From a US policy perspective, what can be done to limit the risk of elite capture when engaging with countries vulnerable to it?
This episode addresses all of these questions as Ambassador Anne Patterson, retired Lieutenant General Karl Eikenberry, and Dr. Louis-Alexandre Berg join host Julia McClenon. They bring their combined experience and expertise to a wide-ranging discussion on a deeply challenging policy issue.
Intro music: "Unsilenced" by Ketsa
Outro music: "Launch" by Ketsa
CC BY-NC-ND 4.0

Proxy Warfare, Theory and Practice

Why do states engage in proxy warfare? How does what scholars call principal-agent theory explain the way proxy warfare actually plays out—particularly the challenges that arise when the interests of a principal and a proxy diverge? And as the US military continues to prepare for large-scale combat operations, how should the ability to leverage proxies factor into planning? This episode addresses these questions and more in wide-ranging discussing featuring three guests. Dr. Nakissa Jahanbani is an assistant professor in West Point's Department of Social Sciences and a researcher at the Combating Terrorism Center at West Point. Dr. Vladimir Rauta is a lecturer in politics and international relations at the University of Reading and the editor of the forthcoming Routledge Handbook of Proxy Wars. And retired Lieutenant General Ken Tovo served for almost forty years in the Army, including as commanding general of US Army Special Operations Command.
Note: This episode was originally recorded and released by the Social Science of War podcast, a coproduction between the Modern War Institute at West Point and West Point's Department of Social Sciences.

Securing the Cyber Domain: Exploring Cyber Policy in the Department of Defense

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Is it possible to deter adversaries in the cyber domain—and if so, how? What should the US Department of Defense be learning from the role of cyber in the war in Ukraine? How do activities in the cyber domain overlay on—and influence—irregular warfare? In this episode, hosts Matt Moellering and Adam Darnley-Stuart are joined by two expert guests. Ms. Mieke Eoyang is the deputy assistant secretary of defense for cyber policy and Dr. Erica Lonergan is an assistant professor at the Army Cyber Institute at West Point and coauthor of the book Escalation Dynamics in Cyberspace. Together, they examine some of the deeply challenging questions presented by the increasing prominence of cyberspace as a warfighting domain.
Intro music: "Unsilenced" by Ketsa
Outro music: "Launch" by Ketsa
CC BY-NC-ND 4.0

Operation Inherent Resolve: The Merits—and Pitfalls—of Fighting “By, With, and Through” a Partner Force

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When the US military set out to combat ISIS in Iraq in the mid-2010s, it did so determined to operate “by, with, and through” partner forces. That approach would prove to have advantages in the case of Operation Inherent Resolve. But it can also prove deeply challenging.
This episode features a conversation with Brigadier General Pat Work, who served as the commander of 2nd Brigade Combat Team, 82nd Airborne Division during Operation Inherent Resolve, and Mr. Jeff Martini, a senior researcher at the RAND Corporation and coauthor of a 2022 report on US ground force contributions in the fight against ISIS in Iraq. They discuss the conditions that encouraged an approach that placed partnered forces at the center of operational plans, before examining Operation Inherent Resolve's effectiveness and exploring the question of how the United States can best prepare for future partnered operations in global operational environment characterized by strategic competition.
Intro music: "Unsilenced" by Ketsa
Outro music: "Launch" by Ketsa
CC BY-NC-ND 4.0

Gray Zone—The Alliance is the Message

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In the blurred spaces between peace and war, a contest over influence plays out. But how is the contest won? What are the components of an effective strategy in this gray zone? What role do irregular warfare campaigns play? And how do strong alliances enable these campaigns? This episode explores these questions and more, specifically looking at the competition for influence in the Indo-Pacific region, where China’s gray zone strategy is in competition with a network of actors, among which the strong US-Australia is a prominent feature. Hosts Adam Darnley-Stuart and Julia McClenon are joined by Clementine Starling, director of the Atlantic Council’s Forward Defense program, and Australian Senator David Van.
Intro music: "Unsilenced" by Ketsa
Outro music: "Launch" by Ketsa
CC BY-NC-ND 4.0